Click on a label to read posts from that part of the world.
Plane Answers: JFK kid controller incident and a smoking 757
Probably the most popular offering on LiveATC.net is the JFK ground and tower frequency. It's rather entertaining to listen to the Kennedy controllers who are often faced with the daunting task of moving so many airplanes from all corners of the world with a variety of accents.So it's no surprise that when a JFK controller hosted a young visitor to the tower on February 17th, and even allowed the kid to make a few transmissions over the tower frequency, those listening to LiveATC.net were there to catch it. And the TV reporters weren't far behind.
The child, who was possibly the controller's son, was heard handing off an Aeromexico and JetBlue flight to departure control as well as clearing the JetBlue flight for takeoff.
As a pilot, I'd probably react in the same way the JetBlue crew did. I'd get a chuckle out of it, but the FAA can't possibly shrug off this now highly public incident. I just hope the controller doesn't lose his job.
Frankly, these instructions could have been given in French and pilots would understand exactly what was instructed. And each pilot in this case read back the instructions clearly, so there was no misunderstanding. If the readback was incorrect, the controller would have jumped right in. So don't believe the hype that a near disaster was narrowly avoided.
Of course we don't bring our kids to work in the cockpit. In fact, there were two high profile examples of why this isn't done. A Turkish pilot was fired in 2008 for letting a 15-year old sit in his seat.And tragically, an Aeroflot flight crashed while the captain's 15-year old son was flying. But a child saying adios from the tower to a departing flight isn't exactly the same as letting a kid fly the plane.
No doubt the media will be all over this today. Here's one report from The Early Show on CBS this morning that includes the kid's ATC audio that was surely obtained from LiveATC.net:
And finally, we're going to get back to more questions on Plane Answers. Here's today's:
Pete asks:
Dear Kent,
On a recent flight from BOS to SFO there was significant smoke from the engine when started. Let me lay the facts out... Light snow was falling. The plane needed to be de-iced. The plane was a 757. Upon starting the engine, significant smoke came from the engine. I worried at first but then figured it was because of the De-Icing solution. Is that correct and is it normal for smoke to come from the engine on start?
Good observation, Pete. The 757 and the Lockheed L-1011 use the Rolls-Royce RB211 engines which smoke quite a bit during engine start, especially on cold days. We've had passengers think the airplane was on fire during start, in fact.
While I'm not certain, it's likely unburned fuel or pooling oil that's at the root of this phenomenon. Either way, it's definitely noticeable. Other jets don't seem to produce the amount of smoke that this engine does on cold days.
De-Icing fluid can also cause a bit of smoke, but not as much as a cold 757 does.
Do you have a question about something related to the pointy end of an airplane? Ask Kent and maybe he'll use it for the next Plane Answer's Plane Answers. Check out his other blog, Cockpit Chronicles and travel along with him at work. Twitter @veryjr
Filed under: Airlines, Plane Answers
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Martha Mar 4th 2010 8:51AM
Having a child give flight directions is not a comforting thought. This will be a thought in my mind forever each time I fly. Hopefully the NTSB will take appropriate disciplinary actions. No one should be in the control tower that does not belong there.
kath Mar 4th 2010 10:13AM
Ridiculous. It's not like the kid was up there alone directing traffic. He was in a tower with adults sitting right there telling him what to say, which he did - properly. the instructions were repeated back - properly - and life went on. I think the whole thing is just plain silly, and people need to get a grip.
I'm sure lots of things go on when we fly (or take any mode of transportation) that would truly be alarming if we knew about them, but we trust that professionals are in charge, and running things correctly, so we don't think about them until we find out otherwise. In this case, there was absolutely no danger. Let's just move on!
Nathaniel Mar 4th 2010 10:03AM
I found this to be humorous, entertaining, and a way to relieve stress. Air Traffic Controllers are known to live short lives, due to stress. They have the most "per hourly" breaks than any other profession simply due to the shear stress and anxiety that their job comes with. Having a kid sign over an aeromexico flight to departure is just a way to relieve stress for everyone involved.
United Airlines channel 9, which allows you to listen in to ATC/Cockpit transmissions is a great tool to hear all of the stress relievers that ATC and pilots use daily. For instance, this is just another example of the famous JFK controller's "SEE YEAH!". Is THAT FAA protocol? absolutely not! Does he get in trouble... NOPE!.
Once, while on a UA flight sitting in a ground delay at JFK about 15th in line of about 25 for departure, i was listening to channel 9 and a pilot of another aircraft came over the dead silent ground frequency and shouted, "IM F***ing BORED!". The ATC controller responded, "Identity yourself immediately". And the pilot said back, "Im f***ing bored, not f***ing stupid!". How is this ANY wrose, than a child being told exactly what to say, while an adult is whispering it in his ear. And if you listen to the recording, that child was speaking more clearly that do MOST jfk tower personnel.
All in all, i got a good chuckle out of this.
Oralee Mar 4th 2010 11:35AM
I think its awesome, they boy did everything right, it was take your child to work day, there were people in there with him to make sure he said everything right. Good Job to the little boy who did it. Nothing went wrong, I think they are blowing it way out of proportion. Let it go.
Mohenjo Mar 4th 2010 12:56PM
This situation has been blown utterly out of proportion. This is a situation where a professional told a guest what to say to another professional. Both professionals (the pilot and the controller) had to agree with what was said or there would have been further communcation. The controller did not 'give up' control of the microphone, contrary to what the sensationalist CBS report stated. The kid was using a handset or second microphone, and the controller has the ability to instantly key up and override whatever the kid is saying should he say it wrong. The CBS story has other errors in it, too. The boy was speaking on local, not departure freq. Some expert.
theshowmestate Mar 4th 2010 7:16PM
And....here son you hold the scalpel and I tell you where to cut.
Thomas Gorton Mar 8th 2010 11:15AM
Interesting about the smoke from the 757. On Saturday March 6 I was killing time watching planes arrive and leave the gates at Newark/Liberty while waiting to board a flight to Shanghai. A 757 was pushed back and when the starboard engine was started it smoked to the point that I thought I'd wait for the start of the port engine just to see what happened. It too smoked. I assumed it was normal but had not noticed it before except on some cold radial engines. A cold radial smokes and belches what is likely pooled oil (?). The smoke and noise is such that you think the engines have failed. When brought up to higher RPM they sound sweet.