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Galley Gossip: The first class / orange juice passenger responds to what happened in flight
My Galley Gossip post, a flight attendant responds to the first class orange juice debacle, created quite a flurry of comments from people venting their frustrations out on flight attendants. Many readers accused me of defending Helen, the flight attendant mentioned in the letter published on the Consumerist web site. But I did not defend Helen. As a matter of fact, if the story is true, I think Helen needs time off until her issues are sorted out. That said, I did defend flight attendants in general. At the end of the letter the witness to the orange juice incident transfers his anger from Helen on to flight attendants in general over the last twenty years. I've been a flight attendant for over fifteen years and I take pride in my job, as does so many of my colleagues whom provide excellent customer service on a regular bases. It saddens me that one bad apple can affect so many people.
Now this story was originally brought to light by David Koss, the passenger who wrote the letter to the Consumerist. He sat behind the passenger who ordered the orange juice, witnessing the entire debacle first hand. No one deserves to be treated badly - passengers and flight attendants alike. But I'm a firm believer that there are always two sides to every story, so who knows what really went down on that flight!
Now imagine my surprise, while scanning the comments under my post, when I found this, an actual response from the passenger directly involved in the incident...
I am the airline passenger whose request for orange juice has caused so much internet traffic. Although the vast majority of the responses on the blogs have been overwhelmingly supportive of me, I'm surprised and disappointed at a few of them that have actually been empathetic towards the flight attendant. If I wrote everything that happene
d on that flight, my own response would be longer than most people would care to read. Thus, I'd like to point out a few facts for the time being:
1) Before that ill-fated flight, I had never even met the writer of the article that has caused so much internet discussion. He would have absolutely no reason to lie or embellish a story about someone he'd never met.
2) A passenger seated across from me later told an AA representative that at least four passengers had issues with this flight attendant, and added that I "happened to be the unlucky guy she exploded on."
3) Every single passenger in my row as well as in the row behind me (thus, the only passengers that could see what transpired) all walked off the plane with me in unison when I was told that I'd have to meet with an AA representative at the arrival gate. At least two of them without my even asking volunteered to be witnesses for me.
4) All 6+ of these passengers/witnesses not only passionately defended me to the AA rep. at the gate, but all of them stayed to talk with her for at least 30 minutes. Most of them had either connecting flights or important places to go. (I'd like to ask the readers of this blog a question. If this type of thing had happened to you, even if you were totally "in the right", what are the chances that every passenger in your section of the plane would walk off with you in unison and spend 30-60 minutes of their valuable time defending you to an AA representative.)
5) One passenger was so unnerved by her intimidating behavior that he told the AA representative that if this flight attendant was working his connecting flight, he would not board the plane.
6) My witnesses are not stressed-out, snotty businessmen as some have wondered about. Almost all of them belong to a women's religious group that promotes peace. One could not have assembled a group of people that was more deferential and polite than this group.
7) Not only has AA already called me to profusely apologize, but they have called other passengers on that flight as well to apologize. I know of at least two others on that flight that have filed complaints with AA regarding incidents that were either partially or totally unrelated to my own.
8) I wanted to have this incident quickly fade away, and I diligently avoided engaging this flight attendant for the rest of the trip. The incident itself was not all that eventful. What was disturbing was that the flight attendant spent the rest of the flight attempting to get other passengers to testify for her regarding what had happened. As each passenger in my section individually told her that they disagreed with her version of the incident, the flight attendant progressively grew angrier and more determined to turn a "molehill into a mountain".
9) For the readers of the article who think this flight attendant was just "having a bad day" and should be left alone, please remember that she handed me a formal warning that threatened potential legal action. The Customer Service Manager who met all of us at the arrival gate stated that while he was shocked by the story we all told in unison, also mentioned that the warning letter was a serious matter that had to be investigated by multiple entities. I ask the readers of this blog how they'd react after being told that by this Senior Manager, especially if they had literally millions of frequent flyer miles with this airline, as I do.
I'm happy to hear that the airline not only dealt with the situation immediately, but also apologized to those who witnessed what happened. As for passengers showing so much support to a fellow cabin mate, I've seen it time and time again. It does happen. More often than you'd think. Whenever something out of the ordinary happens on a flight - whether it be to the crew or to another passenger - there's always a special bond that forms between those who were once strangers. It's always nice to know that people really do care about others. I'm glad the "orange juice" passnger wrote in and set the record straight. I know many of you had questions, as did I. Something tells me we won't be hearing Helen's side of the story. That's probably a good thing. Hope your next flight is a good one!
So....any chance there's a passenger out there who might actually have a good airline / flight attendant story to share?
Photos courtesy of kappuru and thezipper
d on that flight, my own response would be longer than most people would care to read. Thus, I'd like to point out a few facts for the time being:1) Before that ill-fated flight, I had never even met the writer of the article that has caused so much internet discussion. He would have absolutely no reason to lie or embellish a story about someone he'd never met.
2) A passenger seated across from me later told an AA representative that at least four passengers had issues with this flight attendant, and added that I "happened to be the unlucky guy she exploded on."
3) Every single passenger in my row as well as in the row behind me (thus, the only passengers that could see what transpired) all walked off the plane with me in unison when I was told that I'd have to meet with an AA representative at the arrival gate. At least two of them without my even asking volunteered to be witnesses for me.
4) All 6+ of these passengers/witnesses not only passionately defended me to the AA rep. at the gate, but all of them stayed to talk with her for at least 30 minutes. Most of them had either connecting flights or important places to go. (I'd like to ask the readers of this blog a question. If this type of thing had happened to you, even if you were totally "in the right", what are the chances that every passenger in your section of the plane would walk off with you in unison and spend 30-60 minutes of their valuable time defending you to an AA representative.)
5) One passenger was so unnerved by her intimidating behavior that he told the AA representative that if this flight attendant was working his connecting flight, he would not board the plane.
6) My witnesses are not stressed-out, snotty businessmen as some have wondered about. Almost all of them belong to a women's religious group that promotes peace. One could not have assembled a group of people that was more deferential and polite than this group.
7) Not only has AA already called me to profusely apologize, but they have called other passengers on that flight as well to apologize. I know of at least two others on that flight that have filed complaints with AA regarding incidents that were either partially or totally unrelated to my own.
8) I wanted to have this incident quickly fade away, and I diligently avoided engaging this flight attendant for the rest of the trip. The incident itself was not all that eventful. What was disturbing was that the flight attendant spent the rest of the flight attempting to get other passengers to testify for her regarding what had happened. As each passenger in my section individually told her that they disagreed with her version of the incident, the flight attendant progressively grew angrier and more determined to turn a "molehill into a mountain".
9) For the readers of the article who think this flight attendant was just "having a bad day" and should be left alone, please remember that she handed me a formal warning that threatened potential legal action. The Customer Service Manager who met all of us at the arrival gate stated that while he was shocked by the story we all told in unison, also mentioned that the warning letter was a serious matter that had to be investigated by multiple entities. I ask the readers of this blog how they'd react after being told that by this Senior Manager, especially if they had literally millions of frequent flyer miles with this airline, as I do.
I'm happy to hear that the airline not only dealt with the situation immediately, but also apologized to those who witnessed what happened. As for passengers showing so much support to a fellow cabin mate, I've seen it time and time again. It does happen. More often than you'd think. Whenever something out of the ordinary happens on a flight - whether it be to the crew or to another passenger - there's always a special bond that forms between those who were once strangers. It's always nice to know that people really do care about others. I'm glad the "orange juice" passnger wrote in and set the record straight. I know many of you had questions, as did I. Something tells me we won't be hearing Helen's side of the story. That's probably a good thing. Hope your next flight is a good one!
So....any chance there's a passenger out there who might actually have a good airline / flight attendant story to share?
Photos courtesy of kappuru and thezipper
Filed under: Food and Drink, Airlines, Transportation, Galley Gossip
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
scout Dec 12th 2009 3:47PM
First, flight "attendant"=servers,and safety procedure drillist. THAT is it. I am Govt, public servant. UNIFORM. They, are NOT. Slowly they are being turned back into apron clad hospitality types they are. They ARE NOT THE FLIGHT CREW. nope. They dream they are because the commercial co ALLOWED them to wear a uniform. Terrible joke. They are the civilian equivalent to a privat, corporal, or pfc. First and formost because of close proximity , these servers need a psych eval prior to possible employment. ALL jobs that service the public require serving and PROTECTING the public. That is NOTHING unusual, or above anybody else in service.
Alan Dec 12th 2009 9:46PM
How uneducated you sound. By the way, Flight Crew is EXACTLY what the FAA calls a Flight Attendant. Who do you think knows better what they're classified as, them or you? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Who is going to save your behind should something go wrong on the airplane? Do YOU know where all the fire extinguishers are? Do YOU know how to disarm all the doors? Do YOU know where all the emergency medical equipment is and exactly how to use it properly? A flight attendant is there to do FAR more than to open sodas and smile. So you're an enlisted person, so what? Who is charged with the responsibility and duty to handle an unruly and/or violent passenger, another passenger? Nope! A Flight Attendant is just as equipped to diffuse a situation than some passenger feeling his duty to intervene and try to pick a fight. A flight attendant undergoes approximately six days a week of class and psychological screening, for nearly two months before they're even allowed to set foot ON an aircraft to work it. So, the next time you feel so inclined to comment on something you know apparently nothing about, perhaps ask someone.
And by the way, I do not, and have never worked for a commercial airline, and even I know what I'm talking about.
scout Dec 13th 2009 8:41PM
Alan you twit,, now go shake that thand and serve your juice!
nberger Dec 12th 2009 4:06PM
I'm glad to hear we have cleared the air on this issue, well, at least for the time being. I fly at least 15 times a year, usually non-rev (airline pilot for a father) and i have simply gotten used to being overly polite, friendly, and helpful with any and all airline staff. I have found this to be a valuable tool, just recently, flying full revenue to come home for thanksgiving vacation i struck up a conversation with a flight attendant in the aft galley of the plane, we talked about her long day and the fact that she had another leg to fly after the 6 hour one we were already on! I empathized with her, and it eventually came up that my father was an employee for the airline, and she said she had a feeling seeing as how i was being so polite (even though i was still a full paying customer). she offered me whatever free BOB (buy on board) food i wanted.
This just goes to show that all flight attendants are not stereotyped correctly... customers just do not realize the stress that is put on them every day. smile once and a while, strike up a conversation, you'll be surprised at what happens.
great job clearing the air on this one heather!
Honest John Dec 12th 2009 5:20PM
I have a story to write up someday about how a passenger was arrested for reading his ticket wrong in First Class.
He was looking at his connecting fight seat number, and no one helped him, but instead made him out to be a bad guy!
I feel bad I did not write about this when it happened or had a chance to help him - But I don't want to end up like the OJ Man for opening my mouth! There was nothing we could do, only the flight attendants testified. We had to wait for them to do this also. I overheard them ganging up on this guy with 2 that saw nothing, but conspired to back up the others.
This was while boarding, and the Terminal worker was involved - who was the actual cause to turn this incident into a full - blown out of proportion deal!
I will write it up someday and tell my story - this was with American Airlines. - When I don't feel my future flying experiences will be affected.
Rob Close Dec 12th 2009 7:38PM
I have never been involved in a situation like this, in fact to me worst 'bad flight attendant' stories are just FAs who are a bit inattentive.
My last major flight to the UK from Australia with Qantas holds probably my most special FA memory. The flight attendant for our section of economy (let's call him John) was a young man who definitely didn't have a problem with attending to his charges.
Towards the end of the flight I was standing in the exit row 'gap' near the galley and the toilet waiting for them to become free. John was coming back to the galley after delivering a drink. I took my chance, 'Excuse me, I'm a student pilot and would love to work for an airline when I finish school, I was wondering if there was any chance if I could see the cockpit after landing?' He smiled, said sure and to meet him here after the flight.
The time came and when we arrived at the gate and the cabin cleared I went up to meet him. Another boy was standing with him, 5 or so years my junior. He apologised and said he had to look after the unaccompanied minor but that Jane at the upper deck stairs was expecting me and to say John sent me.
Up I went and Carol took me to the cockpit, stood with me while I spoke to the pilot's about flying and career options then delivered me back to the doors to leave. I thanked her hugely but I didn't see John again. I did though write a letter to Qantas highlighting their superior customer service, hopefully that got passed on to them and their managers.
What John and Carol did was only a small action but made my trip. In fact a month ago I was at Qantas for an interview and saw John, he wouldn't have recognised me, but I will always be grateful to him. Hopefully one day I will be able to share a crew bus with him!
Lydia Dec 12th 2009 11:11PM
Well, bad airline experience, very nice flight attendants. At Dulles, had a gate person actually yell at me for requesting premier seating. (This was before you had the opportunity to pay for it) I told him I was a premier executive flier and he told me I was a liar, that my ticket didn't show it.
Instead of arguing and missing my flight, I turned to board the plane. The person taking the boarding passes apologized to me and when I got on the plane, the FA said hello and I burst into tears. She pulled me into the galley and then a restroom and heard my story. She disappeared, a few minutes later the pilot walked by and left the plane, a few minutes later, the pilot and gate person returned and I got a profuse apology.
I appreciated the FA's taking the time to address what happened to me. I'm lucky, 98% of my interactions with FA's are positive. The only time I've seen rude, inconsiderate FA's have been regional jets for larger carriers
Amber Vaidya Dec 12th 2009 8:37PM
I have a good FA story to share too ..
A couple of months ago, I was on the Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to SFO. I was on a work-related trip and was traveling alone. I was seated towards the front of the economy cabin among a huge group of elderly german folk (who were planning to board an alaskan cruise-line from SFO).
Just before take-off, one of the FAs came to me and asked me if I would be willing to switch places with a gentleman who was also traveling with the group but had been assigned a seat towards the back of the airplane.
I willingly agreed and started my way back, only to then find out that this gentleman was actually seated in the last row of the 747.
Not wanting to disappoint the elderly gentleman, I took his place at the back of the plane.
To my surprise, I probably received the best treatment, during service, from the FA. She offered me first choice of the meal (even though the service only started from the front of the cabin) and served my meal personally and before anyone else in the cabin. The rest of the time was no different. Even though she was not serving our section of the cabin, she made it a point to serve me my meals and drinks. She continually fussed over me for the remainder of the flight.
This FA was not obliged to do these nice things but went beyond her regular tasks and make this trip as comfortable for me as possible :)
Traytable Dec 12th 2009 9:51PM
Glad to hear the 'full' story. Obviously Helen had some isues which need to be addressed for her so she can sort out whatever it is that is going on in her life.
The only thing that I could think of (I am by no means condoning what she did) is that the written warning seemed to appear after the passenger refused to speak with her in the galley. In Helen's apparent confused mental state, my guess would be that she interpreted this refusal as the part where the passenger is accused of 'interfering with a flight crew member/or refusing to follow a crew instruction'.
That's the only thing I can think of that the passenger in question did that Helen might have felt justified in using against him. (I don't blame the pax though, I wouldn't want to go there by myself either!) I guess perhaps the airlines should have a policy that if the FA needs to sort out a matter like this that they ask the pax and a companion to come speak privately, and the FA also has one companion, so that each has a witness and does not feel threatened.
In my years of flying I've worked with some 'weird' flight attendants (you get weird in every job) but never one that would act like this! If I saw a a colleague acting in this manner I'd have to go higher up the chain as I would suspect either some type of incapacitation or a serious problem. Wouldn't have any hesitation in bringing it up with the crewmember concerned & if they didn't calm down I'd go the captain. Totally warranted in a case like that.
Kyle Dec 12th 2009 11:16PM
I have a great flight attendant story....
I was on a Southwest flight in October, and my mother and I were sitting behind a gentleman who had boarded the plane in a wheelchair. About half way through the flight, the guy needed to use the restroom, but the only possible way for him to do so was by using a catheter and a urinal. Two of the flight attendants (both male) actually helped the gentlemen without any hesitation. One of them blocked the view so they guy had some privacy, and from what I suspect, the other flight attendant held the urinal for him, and then took it to the lavatory. I thought that this was amazing for two flight attendants to go out of their way to help one of their passengers, even when they didn't really have to. It just goes to show that most flight attendants do really love their job and are happy to help others!
Happy Dec 15th 2009 2:07AM
Kyle, This psgr. should have been traveling with someone to take care of him. Those F/A's surely went "beyond" the call of duty. Very admirable.....
K Dec 13th 2009 4:20PM
For those of you who have good f/a storys those are nice to know and for the people who are making comments about how "bad experiences" are mainly from Regional Jet Carriers let me a f/a that works for a regional jet airline enlighten you as to how our days work.
For the majority of my work I work 4 days & 3 night trips 4 times a month. Most of my trips (in air time) averages anywhere from 18-25 hours. Most of our days have 4 if not 5 flights in them and our duty day (when we get to the airport) very often begins around or often times before 6 am and our days end (the time we get to the hotel) around 10 or later, not even considering that WE CAN NOT LEAVE the plane until the last passenger does, and sometimes that last passenger is the one who likes to take his time, or might be a large family traveling with small children or we may even have multiple passengers in wheelchairs and not enough airport personell to help them all at once. after that we have to get our bags call the hotel wait for the shuttle then the ride check in & by the time we actually get to our rooms its well after 1030 at night IF were even in the same time zone
please keep in mind that this is ONLY the 1st day of 4, if it is even our assigned trip.
As an f/a I underwent a month (30 days) of training & then an additional 5 hours on both aircraft that we fly before I was even allowed to work a flight by myself for the first time. Additionaly every year that were employed we also have to undergo a 4 day training around our employment anniversary date to ensure that we are capable of doing our jobs. All of this training is mandated by our company to ensure that we know what were doing as sometimes I am the only flight attendant responsible for 50 people. Therefore I am THE ONLY ONE to temporarily fix 50 different problems and situations and have additional dutys to perform before I am allowed to close the main cabin door. Let's bear in mind that were still in the boarding process and not even quite in the air yet.
Please be mindful that I have been with this company for 3 years and am in my mid 20's and while I am voicing my own personal opnions that they do not represent any of my colleagues or superiors.
As most of you can hopefully see by now regional jet carrier f/as have good experiences and bad and most of us seem to have a good attitude. Please remember that our attitude and demeanor is indirectly related to YOU the passengers and how were treated, as it often only takes ONE person to ruin it for everyone else. Most regional f/a's that I seem to encounter not only when working for my airline but when flying on others it seems that they are young 20'somethings (maybe even 19) that can & do let power go to their head because they are entrusted with the care & charges of others while in uniform and are unable to find the happy medium of profesionalism in the chosen industry.
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents for those that think & feel that regional jet f/a's tend to provide poor customer service and ONLY bad experiences
Stan Dec 13th 2009 6:39PM
K, I don't get you point! You want us to feel sorry for you?? Are you forced to do this job?? Do you think that when we are returning from a business trip ( that may have turned sour) should pamper you?? Or are you saying that because you are trying to squeeze your work to four days a month, or don't like the conditions of your employer, and when you get cranky, me the passenger, stuck between two overweight people, should be extra tolerant with you?? You chose your career, part of it is, dealing with infinite number of personalities. Yes, percentage of them will be anal cavities, and that will never change, if you don't accept those terms, then work less hours per day and more days per month or go back to flipping burgers.
I'm a platinum elite with CO, flying out of EWR, I must say that great majority of FA's have been great. Occasionally I meet a supper nice FA, and probably same number of FA's that puzzle me (asking my self, HOW TO &%$# DID THEY GET THIS JOB).
VTHokie Dec 23rd 2009 1:50AM
I have seen the application to become a flight attendant and on it, it clearly states that your in air time will be upwards of 75 hours per month, broken up into four perhaps five flights per month. No one forced you to take that job, go cry a river somewhere else. It is not my responsible to pad your ego to make sure you don't flip out on me. I personally have never had a bad experience in the air. But if I did and it was over something as simple as orange juice, trust me when I say, I would own your airline.
Annie Scott Dec 13th 2009 5:40PM
Yay positive stories!!
Barbara Dec 14th 2009 11:03AM
Probably most of the flight crew are great. The few bad apples are the ones we remember. Maybe they should be fired.
Jungis Dec 13th 2009 7:22PM
All these 'nice' stories are nice, but only that. I don't understand why Ms. Poole can't write something other than gossip (a la Galley Gossip) and factually answers the questions posed in the earlier posts. For example, when a passenger feels she is being treated poorly, whom does he call to have the plane met by federal authorities? Under what conditions may an FA issue the dreaded FAA letter or whatever it is? What happens to an FA who makes a false report (nor just with his/her airline, but with the FAA itself?)?
Ms. Poole seems preoccupied with defending herself rather than dispensing any information useful to a passenger.
I'd also like to know if she made any attempt to verify that the 'OJ passenger' who allegedly wrote the post that Ms. Poole claims has cleared the air is really who he says he is.
I really don't think Ms. Poole contributes anything to Gadling compared to the others in an otherwise fine stable of writers.
Her posts are a continuing bad joke.
Cathy Dec 14th 2009 9:41PM
Having retired in 2007 after nearly 40 years of flying for American Airlines, I cannot help myself from commenting on this story. I adored my job..nearly every second of it...even the bad days, and there were many of those. Yes it's true that the cabin crew is there primiraly for the safety of the souls in the seats. Yes, it's true that our training is intensive and thorough regarding evacuating an airplane on the ground or mid-North Atlantic or even the Hudson river. Yes, it's true that we are required to carry plastic handcuffs to restrain potential shoe-bombers. Yes, it's true that we can easily use an AED, give CPR and deliver babies. And yes, it's true that, after our initial two month training and nine month probation we go back to Dallas for recurrent training every single year. We also complete homestudies on various emercency procedures or changes to procedures throughout the year via computer. And it's true that each and every one of us is mandated by the FAA to cary with us on every flight a 400 page in-flight manual which reviews all of our emergency procedures. All of that is true.
It's also true that in 2003, in order to stave off bankruptcy, we took a 30% cut in pay and benefits that has still not been restored, though our management feeds itself bonuses annually.
But the essence of our job is passenger service. And throughout the fear we lived with after 9/11, having our colleagues murdered while they bravely put calls into management identifying the seat numbers of the perpetrators, learning of the courage of our colleagues who dismantled Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, while maintaining the on-board passenger service as the Paris-Miami flight was guided into Boston by fighter jets, passenger service continued to be the essence of our job.
As much as I cherished my job and the experiences it afforded me, certainly there were occasions when my composure slipped and my "aisle smile turned upside-down". Jet lag, paycuts, insufficient entree choices, a broken video system, a catering strike, not enough diet coke, too much carry-on baggage, rude and surly passengers (having their own bad day, perhaps), an argument with a loved one, a sick child at home.....all of the stuff that can affect attitude in anyone has affected each of us at some time.
"Helen" was obviously having a bit more than a bad day. I don't condone her behavior but I can empathize, as all of us should. The passenger that Helen let loose on handled it in the best possible way. It appears as if his fellow passengers, led by Mr. Koss, created a sort of mob atmosphere that pushed Helen over the proverbial edge. Helen knew she was wrong, and I think that she was merely attempting to "cover her a--" when she delivered that form. Those forms are on-board all of our aircraft and the F/A's can issue them at their own discretion. Interfering with a flight crew member IS in fact a federal offense and every single member of the crew, cabin or cockpit, is considered "flight crew".
It saddens me to read these stories...and the intensity of the loathing directed at flight attendants is a bit unnerving.
My husband and I just returned from a vacation in Paris, brought to us by the benefits of 40 years of employment by AA. The flights were long and crowded, babies were wailing and passengers were competing for overhead space...but not once was one single crew member less than gracious to everyone.
I was, and am, so proud to have spent my long career among an incredibly professional group.
Thank you.
Alice Dec 15th 2009 12:40AM
Ugh... I have tried to boycott American for that specific reason (when they got the employees to take paycuts and then the higher ups gave themselves raises). I have never been a flight attendant but I still think that was a super sleezy thing to do on American's part. I didn't manage to succesfully boycott them cause I've flown them once but the flight seemed pretty decent as did the flight attendants.
Sux to hear they never rectified that.
Happy Dec 15th 2009 1:59AM
Cathy - very well said.