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Plane Answers: Fear of flying, aging aircraft and more on those 'dings.'
Welcome to Gadling's feature, Plane Answers, where our resident airline pilot, Kent Wien, answers your questions about everything from takeoff to touchdown and beyond. Have a question of your own? Ask away!Brian asks:
I would like to know if I have the option of knowing what kind of plane I'm in and how old it is at the time of making my reservation?
Specific airplanes are usually chosen the night before a trip, so it's impossible to know the age of your jet when you're making your reservations. You can look up the average fleet age for each airline though.
I'm more concerned with the experience level of a cockpit crew than the age of the aircraft, but neither of these factors are published before your flight. Sometimes you just have to trust that the maintenance program and training at a given airline are adequate.
U.S. carriers are setting new safety records each year in what may end up being the safest decade of flying in the U.S. yet. and more specifically for the past six years, a period with very few new airplanes ordered.
David asks:
I travel often internationally on various airlines and I've noticed that on some carriers, there's a ping or ding at intervals during the climb and sometimes also during the descent. I'd wondered whether it is the pilot's way of notifying the cabin crew of the altitude cleared or that it is safe for them to move around––or is it something automatic to an aircraft engine system. I'm curious because sometimes the seatbelt sign is still on but you see flight attendants moving around; this is especially true on United long-hauls.
Each carrier is slightly different, but as I touched on in a previous post, these 'dings' are usually done during the climb and descent through 10,000 feet. This lets the flight attendants know that the sterile period, has ended.
The cockpit is considered 'sterile' below 10,000 feet, and unnecessary communications between the cockpit and the flight attendants or even between the pilots is discouraged.
Flight attendants are free to decide when it's safe for them to begin their service. If we know of the potential for some significant turbulence ahead, the captain will advise the flight attendants that they should remain seated until we're through that particular area.
Ashley asks:
I would just like to know if there is anything you could recommend to someone deathly afraid of flying. I'm going to Puerto Rico next month and I don't do so well on planes. I hyper-ventilate on take-off and all throughout I constantly worry the plane will crash. Any advice would be great!
This is by far the most frequent question I've received on Plane Answers. I struggle with it every time, because while I can understand how scary air travel must seem to many passengers, I can't get past the sheer statistics involved.
At my airline, we have over 2,500 departures every day. There are more than 10,000 departures in the U.S. daily. Airlines are reluctant to mention safety records, but there have been no fatalities in the past two years for domestic U.S. carriers.
A quick comparison to the more than 40,000 fatalities every year in automobiles might make you consider chartering a helicopter to get to the airport for your next trip.
I think much of the fear associated with flying comes from not being in control. If passengers could at least see out the front window while flying, I know they'd feel much more secure. Imagine how nerve racking it would be to sit in a taxicab with only a one square foot window to see out the side.
So when this question comes up, these numbers go through my mind. But I realize that all the statistics in the world won't eliminate anxiety. So there are a couple of companies such as SOAR and the free service at fearofflyinghelp.com that specialize in helping people overcome their fear of flying. I've mentioned these two in the past, although I don't have any experience or feedback from any of the people who've participated in their courses. Anyone else out there who has some experience with fear of flying courses, let me know in the comments below what has helped you.
Do you have a question about something related to the pointy end of an airplane? Ask Kent and maybe he'll use it for next Monday's Plane Answers. Check out his other blog, Cockpit Chronicles and travel along with him at work.
What strange things have been found on planes?
Filed under: Plane Answers
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Sandy Jan 15th 2009 12:35AM
I too used to fly a lot when I was younger, but after high school I only flew occasionally. I had planned a trip to Europe and knew that I would be really nervous on that long of a flight. I decided to get over my fear would be just to take a shorter flight to get me used to it again. So I took two shorter flights of only an hour a piece about a month before the trip and saw my family members. If anyone is nervous about a long flight or in general I would highly recommend just a short flight. I find it also helps if you are really tired because then you can just fall asleep and wake up when you get there.
Barry A Clarke Jan 15th 2009 12:26AM
As a retired air traffic controller who took many jump seat rides (cockpit) I have seen enough to scare the average person into not flying. But, the one thing that scares me is how old is the airplane? Because, the older the aircraft means that the more times it has pressurized on climb and depressurized during descent. This puts abnormal stresses on all parts of the aircraft and one day................(Remember Aloha????)
gangsta Jan 16th 2009 5:27PM
i flew a lot when i was a child. when i hear that someone is afraid of flying, i find it as irrational as people being afraid of the dark.
GET OVER IT. its not like your flying into afghanistan.
John Ma Jan 21st 2009 5:38AM
Thanks for the extraordinarily helpful comment, gangsta. I'm assuming you have kids and a spouse with that attitude--"Get over it." Yes, of course, thanks. You must do well with drug addicts and the severely depressed.
And maybe this goes without saying, but your user name is beyond lame, gangsta.
To Kent Wien: another commenter asked this, and I must second it: what commercial airline will you NOT fly? Seems kind of cruel to just hang that out there. And what are your feelings about Airbus?
joe Jan 15th 2009 12:36AM
Seeing or knowing whats ahead doesn't do it for everyone.
I remember coming to Texas some 22 years ago to interview with my airline.
On the way back to IAD the big fellow next to me, a man that looked as though he had to travel a lot, was next to me.
Every time we hit a little chop he-d slam his open hand onto the arm rest and just grimaced clenching his teeth.
I felt really bad for him. I got to the point i was leaning
into the window to see a few puffy cumulus ahead of us..Id warn him when we were getting close to the cloud fields.
It seemed only to make his anxiety worse.
When we finally landed in IAD the airplane had barely gotten
to the gate he was yanking his briefcase from the overhead. He was so upset I thought he was going to pull it down.
It was rarely more than lite chop..I dont think it ever approached lite turbulence.
He did NOT deal well with his choice that day..and this was BEFORE there was no smoking on the airplane.
James A. Babb Jan 15th 2009 1:03AM
Ok, guys, here's the deal on aging aircraft - age DOES NOT affect the safety of the plane. Here is how it works - once an aircraft is manufactured it can be stored virtually forever and be considered a new aircraft (c.f. Tucson 'bone yard' of unused military aircraft). What causes aircraft to deteriorate are corrosion, stress cycles, and mechanical wear.
Two aircraft manufactured on exactly the same date with exactly the same number of hours can have VERY different stress cycles due to their usage (pressurization and depressurization are big stress cycles, so are inflight re-fuelings and combat maneuvers, but the latter two do not occur in airline aircraft). Similarly, if these same two aircraft are flown in different parts of the world, they will have different corrosion patterns. Aircraft from Hawaii will have more corrosion than aircraft from Phoenix since Hawaii has a lot of salt air and Phoenix has mostly dry air.
As it turns out, airlines are required to check for corrosion periodically. So corrosion is cleaned up and repaired during major maintenance cycles (typically 3000 flight hours).
Key aircraft parts that show mechanical wear are replaced when they are found during normal inspections. Also, if there is a known mechanical wear issue, the FAA issues directives to repair/replace parts at certain intervals.
Stress cycles are a bit more tricky. Stress leaves no telltale marks until after the failure. However, aircraft are tested and key parts are replaced well before the stress can lead to fatigue failures. Replacement times for key parts are specified in the aircraft airworthiness certificate, and all airlines are required to abide by the conditions in the airworthiness certificate (did I mention that airlines have lots of mechanics and a number of them do nothing but track required maintenance for EACH aircraft).
Jim Babb
Licensed Engineer #56440
Jay Herrod Jan 15th 2009 1:07AM
Me, afraid of flying, never have been. My family flew everywhere in small private planes when I was growing up. I learned how to fly after I grew up. Once while flying on Delta which was waiting to land at DFW, I noticed this light at the top of the clouds. I thought it was first the top of a tower until I remembered I was in a jet, not in a private plane. Out of the clouds another Delta jet appeared, turned, and started climbing in our direction. He noised over and as he was about to pass by my estimates 500 feet below us, our plane only then did start a sharp climb. All I could think of was that someone on the ground maning the radar was not doing a good job.
Another time on a Philippines flight (a 747) coming into LAX while on final approach I heard the landing gear come up, saw the flaps go to 15 degrees and heard and felt the engines spool up. Having to do a "go around" I told a flight male flight attendant who was sitting nearby. Soon afterwards the flight crew informed us of this because a plane had pulled out on to the runway. I could see the people on the streets were so low. Scare me, not at all. I have seen times like I a sure others have as to when a flight left say 15 minutes late and arrived on time by getting a quick climb clearance to cruising altitude then getting the ok to drop down fast and swooping in fast to the runway and then putting on the thrust reversers so hard you were glad you had your seat belt on.
Still I would rather fly than drive to any place. I am scared of other drivers most of whom appear to think they own the road. I am also fearful of amusement park rides. Why? Commerical fleets are well maintained why while with amusement park rides, you just don't know. Train travel is not as safe either.
bob Wong Jan 15th 2009 2:24AM
Flying is by far the safest mode of transportation in the world. Airlines are safe and they should be credited for their records.
Toddi Jan 15th 2009 3:55AM
Ashley, Do you like roller coasters?? If so it is a lot like taking off and going up the big climb before you go on the ride of the coaster, on the descent it is like coming in to get off the ride.
James Jan 15th 2009 4:34AM
Wow...Kent, I believe you hit a nerve with the whole fear of flying.....To the guy stating the NYC crash was a 747....go look it up. There was another guy saying something about North Korea shooting down a commercial plane...that was Russia shooting down a KLM (i think) plane when its pilots entered and left their airspace by mistake...Russia just wanted another excuse to kill.
May I suggest this to you all that fear flying: First you need to be a realist....meaning something must be proven to you to believe it. Now, go study airliner / aviation accidents. After 261 I became fascinated with this and am just waiting for the NTSB to call me up for my thoughts (he he). I learned a tremendous amount of what it actually takes to bring down a plane. One thing does not cause a plane to fall out of the sky....it is a succession of major castrophic failures. Basically...it takes alot. Now, go look at you tube and look up Boeing testing.... Whatch what they do to a 777 wing during initial building of that plane. The stresses imposed were so unrealistic to real world usage...but the point was to hit their (and the FAA) marks and show the public the enormous loads the plane can take. Turbulance...even the worst bumps have no effect on the structure. The proof of just how well planes are build is out there......and finally if you are still afraid of flying...think about it this way...there are 3rd world countries that can barly feed their people and exist.....they operate airlines.....Their safety standards are about a chapter of ours. I would very much rather have my children on a plane than in a car.
If all of you who fear flying actually knew what it takes to become an Airline Transport Pilot you would feel alot safer in flight. Those pilots know very well you are trusting yours and your families life with them and they do not disrespect that...well...usually...some of them have drinking issues...buy hay, no one is perfect.
I have no issues on any current Boeing aircraft, I also like Crj's and most single engine aircraft.
I hope all of you that fear flying get some relief in all these posts and the info within.
To the lady in San Fran....I am in L.A. and if I was up there more, I'd be happy to take you up for a Bay area tour. Find a local flying club where the old timers gather and talk to them....I know there will be atleast a few guys that would love to take you up. Aside from making babies there is nothing better in this world than flying....that's my opinon of course!!
J. Jones Jan 15th 2009 5:10AM
I have over a million miles in the United Mileage Plus Program. I agree that the Air Traffic Control (ATC) channel may help -- so people can hear the pilots and the ground controllers discuss things like turbulence, routes, altitude, etc. You will know when the aircraft has been directed to change direction, speed, altitude, and it is fun to listen to the commands from the controllers and then "watch" the airplane respond to the pilot's actions to fulfill those commands.
The age of a plane, in the U.S., on the major carriers like United, is irrelvant. These planes are taken apart and many compontents replaced, on a regular basis. Parts of the plane that may fatigue, are inspected and regularly replaced. So, in a well maintained fleet, an older aircraft is just as safe, perhaps even slightly more safe (after many inspections) than a new aircraft.
I've been to both of the aircraft assembly plants of Boeing, on business. But, they do tours for the general public, if you are afraid of flying, I would suggest going on a tour, maybe a fun trip to Seattle (in the summer) that includes a tour would be good. You will be amazed at the meticulous care that they take with every part of the plane. I've also toured the United maintenance facility in San Francisco. It too is an amazing place -- seeing the planes all taken apart, being carefully inspected and re-assembled -- all to keep them safe. I don't know if United gives tours, but I think they might be willing to do it for a passenger who was interested enough to ask.
Keep in mind that all of this emphasis on safety means that you will get struck by lightening during your life much more often than you will ever be in airplane accidents (that means, it is very, very unlikely). The most dangerous part of your flight is the drive to the airport -- and you are much more likely to be hit by a car walking through the parking lot than in an airplane accident -- how worried are you about that?
globalgal Jan 15th 2009 9:13AM
I used to be very anxious flying, still am a little, but what has helped me the most was becoming a licensed FAA Ground Instructor. Now that I know all the theory and science behind flying, I understand how safe flying can be.
However, I was getting on a flight from Shanghai to Vancouver a few days ago and struggled to express to my pilot husband how anxious I felt. I wanted to say, "I feel nervous about possible turbulence," and what came out was, "I'm nerbulent." It's already become a classic line in our family.
Capt Tom Bunn LCSW Jan 15th 2009 12:51PM
Several things:
1. Meds. The clearer your head is when flying, the better. Otherwise, it is easy to fall into the trap of letting what you imagine might be happening (due to fear, not valid information) turn into belief that it really is happening. I think this is why meds make flying worse - not better. Though I'm sure some of your believe meds help, the research done when fearful fliers were given either meds or a placebo (they didn't know which they were getting), people taking the placebo did better!
2. Mark, what you wife is doing is dangerous. When meds are mixed with alcohol, the system that regulates breathing is inhibited. She may like passing out, but this is dangerous for two reasons: a. in a few cases, death has resulted; b. sedation through use of meds causes a huge increase in DVT (deep vein thrombosis), a potentially fatal problem due to clots developing in the leg, and then moving to the brain causing a stroke. This is due to immobility when sedated in flight. The World Health Organization warns people to never take sedatives when flying. What you wife is doing is even worse: sedatives plus alcohol. But she may prefer the physical risk to the psychological risk of a panic attack.
Fortunately, there is a better choice, as several people have said: the SOAR Program which I developed which provides full protection against high anxiety and panic. (see: www.fearofflying.com)
James Jan 16th 2009 1:01AM
How Ironic?
Ya know, they say all things happen for a reason. The odds of a duel bird strike on initial climbout leading to total engine failure which leads to DITCHING in the Hudson River.....and everyone walks away. I was at work and had just turned on A.M. radie and heard an airliner went down and I froze. I thought to myself,.,....I hope those people get a good one. Turns out they couldn't have gotten a better pilot. From the Left Coast....I am humbled by the skill and awestruck by the outcome....and very thankful to that flight crew.
CS Jan 17th 2009 10:02PM
I don't actually have a fear of flying, but I CAN say that two summers ago when my husband had to have heart surgery and was temporarily refusing treatment, I was an absolute nervous wreck. I could tell that I wasn't calm enough to make important decisions, which would be especially important if he DID decide to go through with the surgery and something went wrong. I talked to a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist and his answer was a prescription medication called Niravan. He gave me 0.5 mg tablets which dissolved under my tongue and began working in minutes. I found that they calmed me to levels I could not imagine were possible but left me awake and lucid enough to have coherent conversations with doctors, walk into and out of the surgical area, make decisions, sign paperwork. At no time did I feel like I was "drugged" and yet I was unbelievably calm. You don't need a psychiatrist to get Niravan, either. Your primary care physician can prescribe it if he's willing. In fact, I talked to a PA at my doctor's office and he was able to do it as well. I imagine it's something you have to be careful with but if you used it ONLY when flying and discussed it with your doctor first, it might be a good option.
Kent Wien Jan 21st 2009 10:26AM
Every domestic carrier is safe, thanks to some rather rigid FAA oversight, but let's just say I prefer to fly on those carriers with the crusty old flight attendants and pilots.
They generally have a safety culture built-in from years of flying and subsequently, years to learn from their mistakes.
I would definitely include Alaska in the highly experienced category, contrary to what someone commented above.
John Ma Jan 21st 2009 7:03PM
Thanks for the reply, Kent!
This is a great site, by the way. I have a fairly bad fear of flying, and have a flight coming up next week, and reading through comments here has helped me somewhat.