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Galley Gossip: A question about moving from coach to first class when there are open seats
Dear Heather, 
I love your blog, I always wanted to be a flight attendant but was told by many I'm probably too short so now I'm going for an Air Traffic Controller job. But I do have a question for you. On the past 4 flights I was on I was stuck in the middle seat because no window seats were available and I can't sit in the aisle. But I was stuck in between to large passengers that had to keep the arm rest up because they were to large to fit in the seat with it down. There were open seats in 1st class and none in coach on all the flights but on all the flights but one the flight attendant said there's nothing they could do. Was there really nothing they could do or did they just not want to deal with it, and I should add these were not short flights, 2 were Chicago to Phoenix and 1 was Phoenix to Charlotte, and the one the flight attendant did move me to 1st was JFK to Phoenix.
Melissa
Dear Melissa,
I'm so happy to hear you like the blog. Thank you. First I must congratulate you on choosing an amazing career path in the aviation industry. I've always been in awe of those who work in air traffic control. As for being too short to become a flight attendant, height requirements may differ between airlines. The airline I work for requires a flight attendant to be tall enough to reach into the overhead bin and grab the emergency equipment located inside.
Your question brought back memories. I had just started my career as a flight attendant when I found myself walking down the aisle on a flight from New York to Los Angeles, after pushing back from the gate, only to find two passengers standing up and fighting over the same seat in coach.
"You need to take your seats!" I'm sure I had said.
"There are no other seats!" one of them probably said, because it was a full flight and what I didn't know at the time was we were one seat short.
Remember, this happened before we had that computer in the terminal that scans your ticket prior to boarding, which explains why we not only had a seat dupe that day, but why we also had one passenger too many onboard the aircraft. Did I happen to mention we had already left the gate? We were moving on the tarmac! Immediately I called the flight attendant in first class, who spoke to the captain, who told the flight attendant in charge to tell me to move a passenger up to first class and fast! There were open seats available.
"Oh, okay," I remember saying, as I thought to myself, WOW, I'm about to make someones day!
Quickly I walked up the aisle, looking for someone, anyone, dressed nice enough to sit in first class. Don't forget, this was thirteen years ago and people dressed a tad bit better, and ticket prices were more than a tad bit expensive, and we were taxiing out on the tarmac, remember! So I was feeling a tad bit panicky. I stopped at the first passenger I found wearing a business suit. What can I say, he looked the part.
As we made our way to first class, I noticed a few flight attendants and passengers looking at us curiously. "Here's your seat," I told the nice man, who had become even nicer upon finding out he'd be traveling in first class.
After takeoff the phone rang. It was the Captain. He wanted to speak to me. In person. Oh god, I remember thinking, what now?
Slowly I walked to the cockpit. I knocked on the door. Two seconds later I stood looking at the back of a very full head of wavy blond hair, a head of hair I had seen being combed quite thoroughly minutes before departure. The nicely combed hair turned and a thick mustache looked at me.
"Have a seat," the captain said, and he said this very seriously.
I gulped. Plopping down in the jumpseat behind the first officer, I remember thinking, this is not going to be good.
It wasn't.
As the Captain scolded me for moving a coach passenger to first class, instead of moving a business class passenger to first class AND THEN moving a coach passenger to business class, all I could do was stare at the stache as it bounced up and down and spoke to me in a very nasty tone. "You know I should probably report you for this!"
"Really?"
"Really."
What I wanted to say was, Seriously? Because I mean seriously? It was a mistake. Granted, a very big one. Instead I said something like, "Please don't! I didn't know. I'll never do it again!"
Scared and embarrassed, I walked out of the cockpit, clicking the door shut behind me, not joining the other (more senior) flight attendants in the galley for a chat. About me. And my stupidity. And walked back to my post in coach, head hung low. I just...well...it had never occurred to me to do the whole song and dance while we were moving on the tarmac. Remember, I was new. And stupid.
But I never did do stupid again.
Now that I've been flying thirteen years and spend a lot of time working in business class, I know just how precious (and expensive) those first and business class seats are. Our frequent fliers put their names on a standby list days before the flight for those oh so precious (and expensive) seats. That list has a tendency to get very long. Each passengers knows exactly where their name is on that list. Don't believe me? On your next flight ask a passenger sitting in the exit row what number they are on the list. You'll see. And trust me when I tell you that no one is going to bump in front of one of those names on that list, no matter how miserable you are in coach.
Recently I worked a flight that was delayed because one of our frequent fliers got bumped from coach to business ahead of another frequent flier, a frequent flier who was not going to let that happen, who did not let that happen, and who found herself and her bright red power suit in the business class seat half an hour later. Good for her. Hey, it was her seat. Needless to say, bumping from one cabin to another isn't as easy as it sounds.
Even if there are open seats onboard. 
From day one it is drilled into the flight attendants head to respect each cabin, as well as the cabin service. That means if a passenger in business class is traveling with someone in coach, we can not allow the business class passenger to take any business class items to coach. Why? Because the companion paid for coach. Not business. It doesn't matter if the business class passenger is not going to eat the dessert or watch the movie. And yes, it is a big deal to cross cabins. No, I am not being mean. I'm just doing my job. Abusing my power? What power? Okay, please stop arguing with me. And please, whatever you do, do not try to hide it under your shirt and sneak it to the back when I disappear from your sight! Don't do it because I already know you're going to do it. I'm watching you. (Even when I'm not watching you.)
Now to answer Melissa's question (finally!) about getting stuck between two large people in coach. I'm sorry to hear that happened, and not just once, but three times! Unfortunately there really was nothing your flight attendants could do if there were no seats available in coach. Even if there were open seats in first class. They were not being mean. It's not that they didn't care. I'm sure they felt terrible for you. But flight attendants can get into a lot of trouble for moving you to a first class seat without doing it in the proper manner. Unfortunately the proper manner requires a credit cart. Who would know? We have "ghost riders" onboard who watch us to make sure this sort of thing does not happen. As for the time you were moved up to first class, I'd chalk it up to good luck and not count on that happening again. I do not know many flight attendants who would have done such a thing.
Of course it's not fair that you paid for a seat and did not get to sit comfortably in that seat on your flight, so my advice to you would be to write the airline a letter and explain to them what happened. I'm sure they will compensate you somehow, someway. If this happens to you again, make sure to tell the flight attendant while you're still on the ground. That's when something can be done - if at all possible. Or take it a step farther and talk to the agent at the gate. The gate agent is the one with the power to move you, not the flight attendant.
I hope your next flight is a better one.
Heather Poole
| All the time! | |
|---|---|
| Every so often | |
| Once or twice | |
| Never! | |
| Does that really happen? | |
| Only in uniform |
PHOTOS COURTESY OF: (business class) Pat+, (first class passenger) Ammar Abd Rabbo, (Crew) Jfithian
Filed under: Airlines, Galley Gossip
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Sue Nov 13th 2008 11:10AM
Heather, hank you for taking the time to write this blog, I really enjoy it and have learnt a lot.
Following on from Melissa's problem, what should a passenger do when their seatmate is taking up some of their space? I'm talking about the really obese types who can only fit in by leaving the arm rest up and taking some of the next seat.
I always joke that if that happens to me then you'll see it on the news. But seriously, I have back and neck problems and have to sit straight. I've seen people sitting skewed in their seats due to an obese seatmate, and I would be crippled with pain sitting that way for even a short time, never mind a long flight.
My argument would be I've paid for a whole seat, not 3/4 or 1/2 of one.
We always book well in advance and try and get where it's just two seats together but sometimes it's unavoidable to sit next to someone you don't know.
Thanks
Sue
Georgia Nov 21st 2008 11:57AM
I recently retired from flying (after 18 years) and this is one of the problems I don't miss. Agents have told me that if a passenger is over 300 pounds and can not sit in just one seat they are supposed to pay for the second seat. Most carriers offer that second seat if it is availible for half price as they do for parents requesting to use an Infant seat. It is hard to discriminate against someone because he or she is "Fat" but it is also a safty issue. People who are too large to fasten a standard seat belt are not allowed to sit at window exits where the FAA will not allow seat belt extensions to be used. I had one passenger at a window seat who would have been blocked by the very large man next to him. In an emergency there was no way he could have gotten past him. I had to move him for safty sake.
About first class. We just can't give those seats away unless it is a true problem like the door is shut and we are ready to go. Delays cost the airlines more money than the public could ever imagin. Agents that have unusual numbers of delays can even loose their positions. All problems need to be solved before "Push-Back" and as quickly as possible and sometimes moving someone up is the only solution. Flight Attendants and Ground Agents will try to "reward" their Frequent Fliers first but when the time is short they usually move up the person who was the most accomidating and greatful. Winning through intimidation and bullying will almost always get you stuck in the worst seat in the back. Remember in just a few minutes F/As have to please about 100-300 people as fast and saftly as possible.
Kris Jan 28th 2009 7:48AM
Sue,
That's really tough. I spent about 4 years commuting weekly by air and it happened a couple times where I was wedged next to someone too large for a seat. Once I was able to move to an open seat...Which is itself is an embarassing exchange..."Umm...I'm going to find another seat because you need both of these". The other time there I sat contorted and in discomfort for about 2 hours. I didn't bother the flight attendents because I've seldom seen a problem fixed by demanding they defy the laws of physics.
Complain to the airline after your flight or while you are still on the ground. Maybe you can get a different flight or at least a big chunk of miles.
While I understand they are busy and it is a touchy subject gate agents really should look to reseat those folks where they'll cause the least problems or ask them to take a less crowded flight.
DJ Nov 13th 2008 11:51AM
My spouse and I got lucky on a Northwest flight.
Two HUGE people checked in and the gate attendant decided to give them our exit row seats and move us to first class. Was a nice deal, except we were treated like the Economy class passengers we were. I guess the F/A's knew who had paid for those first class seats and who hadn't. They didn't even give us a first class meal (the flight attendants were eating them in their jump seats). So, my first class experience wasn't the best. We would have been treated better had we kept our economy seats.
Maz Nov 16th 2008 9:58PM
FYI: Those were the Flight Attendant's meals, not yours. They are boarded for us since we rarely, if ever, have time to get something to eat at the airport. And where would you suggest they eat? The on-board employee lounge? In the lav?
Personally, I've always had a hang-up about eating in front of the passengers. Even if I go hide in the aft galley, someone comes along and wants to chat and inspect my food (this never happens off the AC, its very odd).
I can't believe that you got a free up-grade and are snarking about the FAs eating their lunch? And furthermore, some airlines even charge the crew for those meals.
Tom Feb 1st 2009 10:42PM
My only first class flight was not real super. "Since you are in uniform you can sit in coach". After the flight was in the air I was offered a refund of the difference in tickets.
jack Nov 13th 2008 1:37PM
As far as I'm concerned, if someone can't physically fit in their seat, they need to buy 2 seats. No, I'm not being anti-fat people. They have to pay for an extra bag, so if they're taking up essentially an extra seat... they should pay for that space.
S.Merkin Nov 13th 2008 8:01PM
I do have compassion for large people; I love many of them in my family and as friends. I am of normal size & weight and have no physical limitations of any kind - Thank You Lord!
What would concern me when flying would be the large passenger them selves. Now - Please don’t kick me in teeth just yet! If an emergency or evacuation was necessary, this would concern me because it could mean the difference between life and death. Airline seats are not very wide to begin with; even regular size people complain & suffer. Yes it’s unfortunate you got stuck this time but, it’s temporary! Blaming or verbally berating the flight attendant won’t help and they did not do this to you intentionally. A little tact here can make all the difference so keep your emotions in-check because each situation is different.
Airlines themselves need to be proactive in the boarding area before ever entering the aircraft to prevent this situation from happening. It doesn’t take new technology and software or to hire hundred’s of staff to do this. Passengers in question should be provided an area near boarding gates where they could be sized for compliance with respect and modesty. A set of passenger seats behind a portable curtained area is not rocket science. I think this would help the airline employee to effectively handle the passenger. The passenger would not be humiliated like they are today. If a passenger needs to purchase a second seat – give them the option to at the appropriate cost. If they cannot or refuse to then boarding should be denied or rescheduled accordingly.
I don’t think that most passengers realize the safety aspects and federal regulations that have to be followed for all passengers. How can an airline expect a one hundred thirty pound female flight attendant move a three hundred pound male passenger to safety? They can’t. The reality here is that larger passengers are at risk during an emergency like the elderly and young children.
Joe Nov 14th 2008 3:09PM
I just returned from a flight and was sitting next to someone who was really hoping to get moved up front. I told her to just get comfortable because even if no one is sitting in first or (more rarely) business the airline would just shut the cabin down rather than upgrading anyone without taking a pound of flesh.
There is a huge difference between international and domestic first class. Occasionally I've been lucky to get a domestic first class seat when no other were available, but international first class is a years salary for a lot of people. And the price really does reflect the ride.
KC Nov 14th 2008 3:09PM
Melissa, you mentioned going for Air Traffic Controll?
There are issues w/ age. The air traffic controller boss for the job in France told me PERSONALLY (I knew him) that he hires ONLY around 21-24 and NOT OLDER. If you want the stressful job, check it out now not later. You may be too old. I dont think you're too short for a flight attendant. Its a great job and I wish I had it. I'd go for that one first depending on your age etc.
Frank Nov 14th 2008 3:08PM
On the rare occasion that I work in First, I make sure I visually check the head count in first class and confirm it with the gate agent. Some magazine put out an article on how to get "First Class" for free. It went on to say, you walk down at the last minute with the gate agent, and just sit down in any leftover seat in first while the gate agent and flight attendant are busy closing out the flight. Needless to say, flight attendants caught on and have evicted said, offenders.
Years ago, I used to upgrade for various reasons. But, not today. I'm under the rule that if someone paid to be up there, you should too. And, I'm all about making sure our best customers, our frequent flyers, get their upgrades.
For obese passengers, I just state the facts:
For you to be in that one seat, the armrest must come down. If not, company policy requires you to buy another seat. Let's try! Can you get it down?
Melissa in Boston Nov 15th 2008 12:40AM
Thanks Heather and KC. I am 22 so I'm still young. I took the test to be an ATC already and am just waiting on the FAA to get back to me. My cousin, an uncle and my father are a ATCs and my other uncle is a supervisor so I have some ins, only difference is they work at TRACONs and I'm looking at airports.
Also I did email the airline in which the 3 flights i didn't get bumped and they still haven't replied(its been a few months) so needless to say, they've lost me and my connections as passengers
Airboy Nov 15th 2008 1:45AM
Heather, how come the captain was involved in cabin drama like the upgrading ? I mean it would only seem natural to call you up front for moving passengers around during taxi.... but not because you upgraded them, that's up to the purser to discuss no ? It works like that at Emirates, anything to do with the cabin relies on the Purser and the tech stuff to the captain, so I'm kinda surprised you got bullocking from CAPT and not the purser. Anyway large pax are a problem not only for their neighbours but also FAs. Sometimes ground staff put them at exit rows. And our safety policy clearly states we can't have them there, instead have ABPs or fit people. So its another thing to deal with at boarding. Leaving us with a puzzle like that isn't the best of things to deal with !
Jeanie Partington Nov 15th 2008 12:19PM
Hello, I am one of those large passengers. I fly to Europe more than I fly on domestic flights. I fly in coach, usually. I have learned little lessons to try to fly more easily. I fly on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, when there will be a larger chance of there being at least one empty seat in coach. Anytime that I HAVE to go to Las Vegas, I purchase two tickets.
The flight attendents have always been very helpful. I have only had one awful experience. On a flight from Houston to Albuquerque, I was in the window seat up front and the person beside me insisted on having the armrest down. There was no empty seat in coach. I had to sit with my right hip up. I did not fit. I was in pain for a couple of hours. I had a terrible, huge bruise on that hip by that evening. Yes, I know, many people look at me as just an "obese person," but I am a kind, caring, intelligent (Masters Degree) person and I have feelings, too.
The best service and care I have ever received is with Lufthansa. As usual, I flew either a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. At the gate, the gate attendant would, without any request from me, block out three available seats. I know that is extremely unusual, but trust me, it was extremely appreciated.
On a flight from Cancun to Houston, the male supervisor at check in took my boarding pass from me. He could not explain what he was doing because he did not speak english and I did not speak spanish. He fixed and gave me another boarding pass with a flourish and a big smile. I smiled back, not knowing what had just happened. When I boarded, I found that I was sitting in first class. To you sir, whoever and where ever you are, GRACIAS, so very much. Random acts of kindness are greatly appreciated.
I hope that the normal sized or thin people who see a person like me will remember that we have feelings. If I am in a situation where I am intruding on another person's space, I do feel embarrased and I apologize. I cannot always afford to purchase two tickets. I try to drive rather than fly, if at all possible.
Melissa in Boston Nov 17th 2008 12:44AM
I know a few people of size and I know some are very nice caring people, one of the times i was stuck between two people of size the gentleman offered to buy me a second jack and coke. But the last time it happened(the Phoenix to Charlotte flight the two woman I sat between looked me up and down and made a nasty face at me(I was dressed up a little, but I was boarding the plane after dinner with my boyfriend[he lives and works in Phenoix]) but while I was sleeping I kept waking up and hearing them saying stuff about me, one said she was sure I was an escort or had a sugar daddy cause "there's no way she could afford those Blahniks and that Fendi bag", They also gave me a really hard time when I had to get up to use the bathroom.
Jeanie Partington Nov 15th 2008 2:09PM
Hi Melissa. Truthfully, rude people come in all shapes and sizes. I am sorry that those people did not seem to care that they were intruding on your space. The very least they could have done would have been to appreciate and respect you.
Maureen Jan 28th 2009 10:54AM
Jeannie P,
You sound like a very caring and considerate person. It is highly unlikely that you chose to be overweight and have to deal with all the difficulties that you surely face living in this society. While I could stand to lose 15 lbs, many in my family would be healthier if they lost quite a bit more than that. I have run into skinny people who present a "space issue" on planes as well as larger people. I have been sandwiched in between two other passengers before, thankfully it was a short flight. Unfortunately on a coast to coast flight I was stuck next to a skinny and very smelly passenger and had no hope of sitting in a different seat. The plane was full, we were in a row of three seats and I had the window and she had the middle, but wouldn't move over to the aisle seat because that wasn't her seat- not even after take off!! I offered to switch but she didn't like the window seat either. The flight attendents were kind and one shared a bit of perfume to dab under my nose so I could avoid the stench as much as possible. There really wasn't anything that could be done- or so I thought. When we stopped at Midway in Chicago the passenger didn't come back on the plane. I am not sure exactly what happened, but the flight attendant did tell me that "someone" would be speaking with the gate agent at the originating airport. THANK YOU THANK YOU!! That woman really really stunk. Her clothing was very soiled, hair oily and smelly. I really did feel bad for her, I assume her life had hit an all time low, but if you can buy a plane ticket you can find a shelter to shower in.
Frank Nov 15th 2008 12:54PM
Thank you, Jeannie.
I realized many years ago that my uniform didnt make me "human" to many passengers. And, at times have been treated as if I didnt have feelings/emotions either.
You are NOT the problem. A 17 inch seat can not accomodate alot of passengers, yet that is what the airline sells to you, is the problem. First and business fares are astronomical. That's not the solution.
As I walk down the aisle and see passenger's of size, I silently think to myself...........how hard it is for you to sit there so uncomfortable.
You may be large, Jeannie, but you also have a BIG HEART. I'll take that anyday, over the passenger with the inflated sense of self importance.
Jeanie Nov 15th 2008 2:24PM
Thank you so much, Frank. You know, I have never treated flight attendants as though they have no feelings. I suppose that is because any flight attendants I have ever come into contact with have always been very pleasant, have smiled and have taken the time to say hello, have a good flight, etc. I would say that 99% are very thoughtful and proactive in being helpful to me (like getting the seatbelt extender for me before I can even ask).
I have really enjoyed reading Heather's blog. It is so informative for me to read the FA's perspective.
In this day and age, when the average person needs or wants to get from point A to point B and there is great distance involved, we are going to have to stuff ourselves into the big metal tube with a lot of other people who are in the same situation. It is going to entail unusual closeness and maybe crying infants.
I know that it is only going to be for a few hours and I try to make the best of it. It is much easier to do when flight attendants like you are on duty, Frank.
Traytable Nov 17th 2008 12:08PM
My concern would be that the airline moved the so-called 'huge' people into an exit row. Sure, there is more room there, but exit rows are NOT designed so people (any people) can have more room. They are for emergency egress ONLY!!! This is what frustrates me about ground crew. (I can moan, I used to be one, and I would NEVER put anyone less than fit in there)
Jeanie, I understand what you are saying, it's nice to see that you think of your fellow passengers. But not all 'people of size' (sorry if that term is offensive but that seems to be what is used) think like you. Perhaps if you had the option to buy a 2nd seat at 50% fare at check in that would help? And obviously not done online, to prevent people cheating the system for a cheap seat. Some airlines do it for freight or instruments, so why not for people who for whatever reason are larger and need the space.
From an FA perspective I do feel sorry for anyone big/tall/uncomfortable in those seats. I try to bring the extender down and make the focus on my chat rather than the fact I am handing out an extender belt.
Just for interest's sake, at my airline the rule is if an extension is required then that passenger cannot be seated at an exit or a bulkhead seat which is an access route between doors/exits on opposite sides of the aircraft.
As for the passenger upgraded who didn't get a meal- this is the policy at most airlines. You are being upgraded the seat, not the extras. Although they should have served you a meal from economy if that was included in your fare. On flights where we charge for drinks any pax upgraded technically are meant to pay but if we are full we don't bother with that.
If there are leftover meals and IF none of the crew want them, we let the passengers have first meals. The crew are entitled to the left over meals before passengers who have been upgraded from economy as they have not paid for that extra. If there are no meals left from that cabin then they get served meals from the cabin they moved up from. Hope this explains it a bit better.