Plane Answers: How do pilots move up to Captain?
Introducing Gadling's newest feature, Plane Answers, where our resident commercial pilot, Kent Wien, answers your questions about everything from take off to touch down and beyond. Have a question of your own? Ask away! Here's the first question and answer:Kent:
I have a question on how the majors promote pilots. Do pilots start out as (say in AA's case) an MD-80 co-pilot and go to MD-80 captain, then 75/76 co-pilot to 75/76 captain to 777 co-pilot etc..? Also do the Captain's fly reserve as well?
-Matt
Thanks Matt for the first question in our Plane Answers feature. You've touched on a subject that my neighbors and friends often ask.
I mentioned in one of the Cockpit Chronicles how seniority controls what kind of schedule you'll be flying. Even more significant than your monthly schedule or when you'll be taking your vacation is what position you'll be flying. This is driven entirely by your seniority.
Every airline is different, but typically you'll start out as an MD-80 or 737 co-pilot. Up until 2002 at my company, you may have started in the flight engineer position of the 727. That's the guy who sat sideways and controlled the aircraft systems, such as the fuel balance, hydraulics, electrical system and the air-conditioning and pressurization. I did this for four years before upgrading to the right seat (co-pilot) of the MD-80. I was just thrilled to get a view out the window finally, and the first opening just happened to be in Boston where I wanted to end up anyway.
When our company started buying the new generation 737-800's I went to that as a co-pilot. The pay was very close to the MD-80, but I was thrilled to be flying the non-stop Seattle flights where my parents live. Three years later I jumped up to the 757/767 to fly internationally, still as a co-pilot. For a short time, one month to be exact, I flew the 777 out of New York before getting displaced from it back to Boston on the 757/767.
So typically you'll work your way up through ever larger airplanes (which usually pay more) while sitting in the right seat before making the jump to the left seat in the smaller narrow-body aircraft. This often results in a 20-40% pay raise.
There are exceptions of course. Some pilots stay in the same airplane for their entire career--especially if their airline flies only one type, as is the case at Southwest. Other pilots might want to choose to fly as a co-pilot for a few more years to enjoy their seniority in that seat. They would hold better schedules as a co-pilot, but once they move over to captain, they'll likely be near the bottom of that list, which means flying on reserve (on call) again--which happens to be the answer to your second question.The time to upgrade to the left seat is different at every airline. It's entirely dependent on how much the company is growing and how many pilots are retiring. At my airline, movement into the left seat has been excruciatingly slow. I'm in my 16th year and I will have to wait for another two years or so before enough retirements allow me to upgrade to captain on the MD-80 in New York. If I elect to stay in Boston, it will likely take another year or so on top of that.
Other airlines have grown rapidly in the past few years. Continental has a few pilots that recently upgraded to captain with less than three years of seniority. Compare that with our most junior co-pilots who were hired at least eight years ago.
In addition to actually being able to hold the captain position with your seniority, you'll also have to successfully pass your checkride before you can move into the pilot in command position. Failure to do so means you'll have to go back to the co-pilot position. But some airlines have an up-or-out policy, meaning that you'll have to successfully advance to captain if you want to continue working there.
So you might ask why pilots stay at a slow moving airline instead of leaving and taking their experience to another carrier. Pilots almost never quit to fly somewhere else because they'd have to start at the bottom of the other companies list regardless of their level of experience. This could leave them vulnerable to a furlough if that company cut back on it's capacity.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Apr 4th 2008 @ 4:39AM
Ruthann said...
Great explanation there Kent; clear, concise and direct, words that can't generally be used to describe aviation.
Looking forward to more Q&A!
Reply
Apr 4th 2008 @ 11:25AM
Tim said...
You should mention that this is only relevant to America. Things are done differently elsewhere, you know.
Reply
Apr 5th 2008 @ 11:08AM
Kent Wien said...
You're absolutely right. I'll try to lay out the usual caveats next time.
I'm not really familiar with how the seniority system works at other carriers. I suspect that British Airways and Lufthansa for example are similar to our system. I do know that some newer and rapidly expanding airlines such as Emirates are hiring experienced pilots directly into the left seat.
Also, some of the smaller airlines in the U.S. upgrade pilots based on 'merit' and experience.
How's it done at your airline, Tim?
Anyone else like to chime in with some of the upgrading differences around the world?
Apr 4th 2008 @ 2:01PM
Raf said...
@Tim,
Well, considering he has mentioned (as well as his other column) that he flies out of Boston, his mentioning US Flag carriers, as well as the use of the following phrases:
"Every airline is different"
"So typically"
"There are exceptions of course"
I think that it's obvious he is speaking from his own personal experience and qualifies that experience.
Perhaps you can mention how it is done outside the US? You are either knowledgeable and holding out or are being rather snarky & smug IMO.
Reply
Apr 4th 2008 @ 2:27PM
Neil said...
I think this new section is going to provide a lot of interesting reading. I'm looking forward to it!
Reply
Apr 4th 2008 @ 9:09PM
hiawatha biscayne said...
very interesting read. thanks for the info. i appreciate it.
Reply
Apr 7th 2008 @ 9:26PM
Gail said...
Once again,your posting for the week eerily parallells the career of my boyfriend, a pilot with BA. He was a 777 first officer for 8 or so years, and is now training to fly Airbus. This was a quicker route to the left-hand seat because of a bottleneck in promotions on the 777 fleet. From what he's told me, training to change aircraft and to change seats simultaneously seems especially intense. And he will go to the bottom of the captains' seniority list ( just like in your airline) on the Airbus fleet after enjoying getting the roster of his choice pretty consistantly for the last 2 years.And, as you wrote, passing is not a certainty. But I'm hopeful it will work out just fine. Airline mail and bid packs are arriving addressed to "Captain Mike"!
Reply
Apr 7th 2008 @ 9:48PM
Kent Wien said...
Congratulations to Captain Mike! Thanks for giving some insight into how similar the seniority system is at BA. Chime in every now and then and let me know how it's going for him, Gail.
Apr 9th 2008 @ 1:28PM
Irene said...
I'm so glad I found your blog. My son just recently graduated from ERAU, completed his CFII and is now working on his CFIA. He tries to explain this industry to me and I struggle to keep up with all the acronyms. Your blog helps to supplement my ever-increasing knowledge of the industry and understanding what "my son, the pilot" does. Thanks!
Reply
May 23rd 2008 @ 2:12AM
Dave said...
I'm a gate agent who works a gate alone at a major hub. With cost cutting measures, many airlines are having one person work extremely oversold flights. When requesting a jump seat on another carrier, please get there at least forty minutes prior to departure. It takes time to clear the CASS system sometimes (slow computer). Some agents are under so much stress at the last minutes of boarding, that they will simply blow off the pilots saying they are full instead of processing the jumpseat request. Offer a cookie or a smile, and you will get the best seat avail!
Reply