Should overweight people pay extra? Canada says no.
Many airlines in the US state that passengers "needing an extra seat to maintain comfort" must pay for an adjacent seat. Their thought is that since they can't sell that seat to another person, the passenger occupying part of that seat needs to foot the bill. And this mode of thought has prevailed through to the current age of air travel.Some overweight members of the community disagree with that policy, however, suggesting that obesity is a disease and citing discrimination against the disabled. This makes carriers' policy a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and technically illegal. So far, the US government has not interceded in this debate.
The Canadian government, on the other hand, has. Earlier this month the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) mandated that national carriers cannot charge an overweight passenger extra if he or she requires extra seats. The airlines now have a year to accommodate and integrate these changes into their systems.
What do you think? Should we do the same thing in the states?
Filed under: Canada, Airlines, Transportation, News
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jan 23rd 2008 @ 10:47AM
julio said...
I feel bad for them. I once had to sit next to an overweight lady for 4 hours. She was not comfortable and I was pinned against the window for the duration of the flight.
But I do believe that people that take up more than one seat should pay for that seat. This is not about discrimination but rather about seat occupancy.
We expect to pay according to weight when we mail stuff. Why not when we fly?
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Jan 23rd 2008 @ 10:56AM
Tri said...
So now when you want to buy a ticket, you'd have to tell the airline how much you weight, how tall & how wide you are? Lol...
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Jan 23rd 2008 @ 11:16AM
Jon said...
I think that obese people deserve to be charged more. Serves them right for not keeping healthy lifestyles, why should we continue to deal with all the "extra space" they occupy whether it be on a train,bus or airplane. If they occupy two seats they should be charged for it.
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Jan 23rd 2008 @ 9:31PM
M.E. Williams said...
First of all: I'm not obese, so any response to the following that includes something like, "huh huh she must be a fatty!" is pointless. I have no problem fitting into a single seat, but I don't agree with the logic of the poster I'm replying to.
Not all obese people are simply too lazy or obstinate to keep to a "healthy lifestyle." Many people gain weight due to other illnesses that make it difficult for them to exercise; other overweight people do exercise and have a healthy diet, but do not lose weight due to metabolism and other issues (thyroid problems are a major culprit in many cases).
Furthermore, not all thin people exercise and eat right: shouldn't they have to pay double to fly, too? We are, after all, talking about people who deserve to be financially punished for their unhealthy lifestyles, aren't we?
This is not to say that there aren't plenty of fat people who are fat for the exact reasons you suggest: there are. And there is the major issue that there are people who are fat because of cultural lifestyle defaults (referring to them as "choices" signals a bunch of assumptions; they may or may not have been choices per se). There's also a problem with a weight snowball effect, where someone who is overweight initially due to lifestyle "choices," then develops secondary problems which make exercise difficult when they want to do it.
But an airline has no way of knowing which is which, and as such, I agree that making an obese person pay for two seats is probably discriminatory.
(Check out this recent NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/health/22fblogs.html)
Feb 29th 2008 @ 10:38PM
Jonathan WW said...
In response to M.E. Williams, while there are those whose weight is not an issue that they can control (i.e. hypothyroidism), this accounts for LESS THAN 5% of the obese population (in the United States). The vast majority of people who are overweight are so simply because they overeat.
From the University of Maryland Medical Center: "Obesity. Many people who are overweight believe that they have an underactive thyroid gland, but only a very small percentage of obese people actually have hypothyroidism. Patients with hypothyroidism generally show only a moderate weight increase of 5 - 10 pounds, mainly from accumulation of fluid, and in fact they often have a decreased appetite."
~ http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/how_hypothyroidism_diagnosed_000038_4.htm
Also, a research article on the effects of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) showed that among obese subjects (all subjects in this study were obese) came back with results that only with levels of TSH 3 standard deviations higher than normal (within the range of subclinical hypothyroidism) was there a difference in resting energy exposure, but no difference in body composition or lipid profile.
Essentially, the results suggest that in obese people, the levels of TSH must be exceptionally higher than normal to have an effect on energy expenditure, and at that point only the resting energy expenditure levels are different than normal, while body composition remains the same across the entire group.
~ http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/abstract/9/3/196
This is only a small selection of evidence suggesting that hypothyroidism does not necessarily cause obesity, that only a small portion of the obese population has hypothyroidism, and that among the obese population, those with hypothyroidism are no worse off than those without it.
The vast majority of the obese population is so because of the lifestyle they choose. Also, those who are obese (not just overweight) are perfectly capable of fixing their problem. Take a look at David Smith, who lost over 400 pounds using only exercise and a low-carb diet.
~ http://www.hemmy.net/2007/07/02/david-smith-amazing-weight-lost-story/
By this point my opinion should be obvious. Overweight people are not disabled or diseased. They have made the personal choice to overeat and not take care of their own bodies. And since they do take up much more space on an airplane than a person of healthy size, they should be asked to pay for it.
Mar 20th 2008 @ 2:56AM
nikki said...
Well for your information there are people like me that do have deseases called CUSHING SYNDROME..Pituitary Adenomas
Pituitary adenomas cause most cases of Cushing's syndrome. They are benign, or non-cancerous, tumors of the pituitary gland which secrete increased amounts of ACTH. Most patients have a single adenoma. This form of the syndrome, known as "Cushing's disease," affects women five times more frequently than men. it causes the gland to shut down and not regulate hormones to help balance out weight.
FEN people have no FEN clue what its like for the world to judge you Try puting on a fat suit and see how it feels.. Ass holes
http://www.endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/cushings/cushings.htm
Jan 23rd 2008 @ 11:46AM
Norville said...
... or even better, if their crushing weight bears down on me during a 5 hour flight to refund my fare.
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Jan 23rd 2008 @ 4:48PM
Bunny said...
I think that the Canadian thinking is more "humane" and correct. Also, one must admit that the current airline seats are quite narrow. Perhaps if the seats were a little wider, people "over-flowing" their seats would not be a problem. If the airlines cared about customer comfort, they would have 20" wide seats vs. the current 16" wide seats.......
Also, some people are big, not overweight, just big, for example, athletes...... 6' and all muscles....... do they get charged for "using more seat" too?
If the airlines were to make some cabin redesigns, they should also redesign the bathrooms...... they are so small and cramped and totally disgusting.......
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Jan 24th 2008 @ 1:26PM
Stijn said...
I agree with Norville!
Also, about the narrow seats, not too narrow for me.
Another thing, they should have to pay for another seat, as if I wanted extra legroom, I would also have to pay for business or first class.
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Jan 26th 2008 @ 1:52PM
Brooks said...
Hey, I know people who suffer from serious social anxiety disorder. Should the airlines be forced to fly empty planes for these folks?
This is utterly crazy. The airlines are in the business of selling coach seats of fixed dimensions. If you want or need more than one, buy more than one. Heck, some poor people have kids accidentally. Should they get free airline seats?
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Feb 17th 2008 @ 3:58AM
Melanie said...
Where do we stop?????
How about paying extra for the comfort of others, when people don't shower and smell bad or overuse their nauseating perfume which make me uncomfortable, should they buy two seats? What about the crying and screaming children that annoy me during my flight should they pay extra for more room for the child to be secluded?
We could go on and on, life is about adjusting and compromising we are all to spoiled and want everything our way an perfect. Sit down cudlle up and enjoy the ride
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Feb 28th 2008 @ 5:02PM
Jonathan said...
All the logistics of who-pays-for-what aside, why aren't the airlines being proactive and making the seats more comfortable for everyone, not just those termed obese? Come on, don't tell me that you aren't more comfortable in a big lounge chair than in a cramped, tiny seat. How many of you have children's furniture for your own use in your homes? The seats in first class are noticeably larger than those in "economy"/"coach"/"sardines". Those seats could be installed throughout the entire aircraft.
It's a comfort versus cost issue, and the bottom line is, how big is your bottom supposed to be when you fly? And who gets to decide how comfortable you are? If the seats are too small for your comfort and you don't let the airline know that you find it unacceptable who's to blame?
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Mar 1st 2008 @ 6:57PM
halchedog said...
As a pilot and businessman, I see the financial and FAA side of this.
Aircraft are certified under a document called the weight and balance form. In addition to where the center of gravity is, there is also a maximum allowable weight for every aircraft to take-off and land. For passenger airlines, there is an average that is taken into account - an average weight for each passenger and bag, that varies by season (more during the winter to allow for larger coats and boots, etc). The maximum take-off weight is divided by this average (including luggage - why people need to pay more for heavier bags) and that gives gives you the total number of seats that a given airplane can hold (which changes from aircraft to aircraft, even of the same model because of different on-board equipment).
So, a heavier person not only effects the revenue by seat, but also effects the total number of people that can be on board the aircraft no matter where they are.
In case you didn't guess, IMHO, people with larger suitcases or higher body weights should pay more.
There could, tho, be an allowance for less-than-full flights. The maximum take-off weight is static, so if the flight is only half-full, or to a point that would allow them on-board without effecting the weight and ballance of the plane, there should be a refund available. Unfortunately, you don't have this before the door is closed.
PS - As a person with a higher than average body weight myself, it effects the number of people that I can take on my own plane, too.
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Mar 20th 2008 @ 3:33AM
nikki said...
All air lines is about is piling as many people as they can in seats to get money.. all people are to them is dollar signs aka sheeple cram them in like sardiens and take there money
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Mar 21st 2008 @ 2:33PM
Ankhorite said...
Airlines claim to serve the "average" passenger but they are lying. The average American is significantly overweight, and the design of the plane's seats and washrooms should reflect that.
The "averages" they are using are from the 1940s!
Furthermore, the cramped seats lead can lead to fatal pulmonary embolisms from blood clotting in the legs. The airlines and their defenders are pretending that the uncomfortable seats are the fault of the passengers' weights or heights. No. It is THEIR fault, their poor designs. The federal government should intervene not only as a discrimination matter, but as a health issue.
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Apr 8th 2008 @ 2:36PM
carol garcia said...
i am just booking flights to florida. i am 286 pounds. 10 years ago i was 186, and, my husband was 240. now after extensive cancer surgery i have gained 100 pounds. my husband has lost 90 due to health issues. i walk 2 miles everyday on my treadmill and work 40 plus hours a week standing up the whole time. how do you think it makes me feel to look in the mirror every day and see what i see and the rudeness of other people. and then i listen to my dr. tell me i should be very happy that i am alive.
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Apr 8th 2008 @ 4:00PM
Maude said...
I am fat. Yes I said fat. I call it like it is. It is not a disease, an addiction yes. As of now I fit in a seat bearly. If I continue to let my body get bigger then yes I should pay for the extra seat. It is my choice. I cannot stand for fat people to say it is a disease! I have several diseases as a result of being fat. This is a problem I and I alone brought on myself. I think it is time that people stop blaming others for problems they create. The airline did not force feed anyone. However, I do not think that children who are overweight cause their problems. In the case of a child the parent is to blame. Every parent of an overweight child should have to wear a fat suit to make them as over weight as their child until the child is of normal weight.
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Apr 8th 2008 @ 5:36PM
Charlie said...
I have had to sit next to a person who did not fit comfortably in their seat on several occassions. As a result, I was less than comfortable.
I would suggest that they have to buy at least a first class seat, which are larger to begin with and usually have less impact on the seat next to them. If the individual is too large for even a first class seat, then by all means they should have to pay for two seats. After all, its the total weight of the plane that has to get off the ground; its also the total weight that determines how much fuel is being used to get all those on board from point A to point B.
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Apr 8th 2008 @ 6:03PM
Tom said...
If they can charge me an exhorbitant fee for a bag that is one pound overweght, then they certainly should charge obese passengers as well.
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Apr 8th 2008 @ 7:04PM
Cheyenne said...
Every day I live in the USA is a day I find reasons for Americans to start doing as their northern neighbors are doing.....I mean after all........you don't have to be wealthy in order to get insurance there.....or an immigrant or whatever.........everyone has insurance or so I am told but I suppose I could have been mislead.......... and all receive the same level of health care.......now you tell me the USA can't measure up to Canada in that regard if it so desired?????
It is shameful how America treats it's natives but then it always has been hasn't it? How many of our ancestors, regardless of race or religion, etc., has flown to Canada for safe harbor?? I am inclined to believe if our higher echelons thought more like the Canadian government we would be home free. Canadians sure have it altogether in the most important issues. Of course that's JHMO.
Oh......... and nooooooooooooo overweight people should not have to pay extra I mean come on now......where is it written that the majority of people are thin????? I am in agreement with the poster that said they should redesign their seats. They are much too small and cramped too close together in any event much less for a larger person to be comfortable in. That's the trouble America has always had. They base everything on THIN. The seats in diners, restrooms, waiting rooms, etc. Everywhere you look is evidence of the bias in America. Sometimes I swear i am sooooooooooo tempted to move to Canada you have no idea. America caters to thin people. Shame on you America. I love you but YOU REALLY NEED to change some major stuff.
A disgruntled American
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